Episode 3

The Futility of the Refund/Defund Cycle

Published on: 13th March, 2025

How can communities and police departments work together to move beyond the defund/refund binary?

In this episode, your hosts delve into innovative approaches to community policing and the need to move beyond traditional enforcement models. Mike, Carol, and Kristin discuss restorative practices, social capital, and the power of neuroscience in transforming public safety. Together, they explore how reimagining and repurposing police roles can lead to stronger, safer, and more connected communities.


Topics that Chief Mike Butler, Dr. Carol Engel-Enright, and Kristin Daley explore in this episode: 


* The meaning behind the podcast’s title, Beyond the Bandaids.


* Recidivism rates and how restorative practices can break the cycle.


* The Care Card program in Evanston, Illinois, as a model of community engagement.


* The impact of police officers experiencing trauma and ways to address it.


* Examples of community collaboration transforming individual lives.


* Neuroscientist Dr. Bruce Perry's findings on trauma and healing.


* Challenges and cycles of "defund" versus "refund" narratives in policing.


* How reallocating police budgets can strengthen community resources.


* The importance of transcending traditional roles to redefine public safety.


Chapters: 


(02:00) Exploring Gratitude and Possibilities in Policing

(09:00) Community Programs 

(15:00) Understanding and Addressing Recidivism

(25:00) Transcending the Law and Order Mindset

(35:00) Neuroscience, Trauma, and Healing in Communities

(45:00) Reallocating Resources for Public Safety


Resources mentioned in this episode: 


* The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog, a book by Dr. Bruce Perry. 


This episode of Beyond the Bandaids is brought to you by Project PACT (Police And Community Together). Learn more about Project PACT by visiting https://projectpact.org/ 


LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/project-pact-police-and-community-together/about/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/project_pact_org/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/project.pact/ 

Newsletter: https://projectpact.org/our-courses/ 

Contact Us: https://projectpact.org/contact-us/ 


Connect with the co-hosts of Beyond the Bandaids:


Chief Mike Butler on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-butler-6b0b2587/ 


Dr. Carol Engel-Enright on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carol-engel-enright-97701a10/ 


Kristin Daley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-daley-23bb7b26b/ 


The following three organizations—each committed to enhancing community well-being and policing integrity—joined forces to create Project PACT. 


Law Enforcement Action Partnership (LEAP): https://lawenforcementactionpartnership.org/ 

New Blue: https://newblue.org/ 

The School of Statesmanship, Stewardship & Service (SOSSAS): https://sossas.org/ 


Beyond the Bandaids is dedicated to exploring how police officers, public safety professionals, community leaders, and community members can reconnect with their sense of purpose and inspire positive change in their local community.


Subscribe via Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3Fd6ngx 

Subscribe via Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4h8puWm 

Subscribe via YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectPACT-org 


This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.successwithstories.com 


Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Beyond the Bandaids with Project PACT

About the Podcast

Beyond the Bandaids with Project PACT
Welcome to Beyond the Bandaids with Project PACT, a podcast dedicated to exploring how police officers, public safety professionals, community leaders, and community members can reconnect with their sense of purpose and inspire positive change in their local community.

Through meaningful conversations and insights from experts, this podcast emphasizes that both citizens and police are part of the community, aiming to foster unity and build trust through partnership.

Beyond the Bandaids helps you rediscover this purpose and make a real difference by looking within and fostering deeper community connections. Instead of focusing on symptoms or past problems, we concentrate on creating a future where lasting, positive changes are not just possible, but probable.

For community members, Beyond the Bandaids offers a hopeful perspective on collaboration and compassion. Together, we can create vibrant, thriving neighborhoods where everyone plays a role in public safety and well-being. Join us as we explore transformative conversations and pave the way for a safer, more harmonious future for all.

Beyond the Bandaids is brought to you in partnership with the Law Enforcement Action Partnership, New Blue, and The School of Statesmanship, Stewardship, and Service (SOSSAS).

About your host

Profile picture for Seth Silvers

Seth Silvers